So I don't know how many of you follow the news or anything , but something pretty big happened around here in the early hours of Monday morning that have shook many communities to the core - it's been all over the news in the US but here is a few links in case no one pays attention to that sort of thing. 


www.cnn.com/2018/10/19/us/wisconsin-missing-girl-jayme-closs/index.html - There's a link that will kind of catch you up.


Now I know it's really cliche` to say that "things like this just don't happen around here" - but it's true in every sense of the word for me. I've grown up in this area my whole life and sure there are accidents and drunken squabbles every now and again but never premeditated double murders and kidnappings like something you'd see on a television show or read about in true crime. The house where this happened is about 10 minutes down the road from me and one I personally drive by like three times a week and my wife drives by 6 times a week.

The actual case itself is crazy , there have been pretty much no leads and so little to go on that it seems like the perfect crime up to this point. I've been following every step of the investigation and get more confused with each press release and update because just when you think you have an idea of what might of happened - new information contradicts that completely. They still haven't said whether they believe the public is in danger , which is weird to me because that's usually one of the first things to pop up. 

Anyways the case is an interesting one if anyone wants to discuss that. Also though - how many of you have experienced something like this super close to you? Bigger city posters might have it frequently but in small town rural Wisconsin it's been a surreal week. 

I grew up just minutes down the road from where Michael Brown was murdered. It’s always jarring to see these things so close to your home.

Oct 20, 2018 14:31:41 GMT KJ said:

I grew up just minutes down the road from where Michael Brown was murdered. It’s always jarring to see these things so close to your home.

Jarring is a great word. The other day driving down the road it happened on was surreal - a drive we as a family has made 100000 times and now there are FBI helicopters scouring the woods with volunteers led in groups by law enforcement officers with assault rifles. 

We've had talks with our kids about what kind of happened , sparing the details but that Jayme is missing and things are going to be different for awhile. As in I won't even let them play outside. 

I truly think it was a personal , planned and targeted attack for a lot of reason so deep down I don't think the public is a ton of danger. For them to leave it up in the air though is a bit a worry some for me - as someone with a wife and daughter who are home alone when I work nights. 

My 4th grade teacher hired two men to kill his ex-wife.
He would talk about how he missed his kids etc, obviously just seemed like nothing sinister at the time.

I had the weirdest day ever near the end of grade 11.

My friends and I got tickets to the Pop Disaster Tour (Jimmy Eat World, Blink-182 & Green Day) in Toronto. We decided to skip school that day (it was almost the end of the year and most people were cutting class because it was a Friday, and also it was prom night so the entire senior class was not at school) so we went to Canada's Wonderland for the day then to the concert afterward.

Every year there was a huge senior after-prom party at a farm north of our town. The family that hosted it had been doing it for several years now (oldest son started the tradition, younger siblings were carrying it along) and it was a very well-known party. We left Toronto and hadn't planned on going, but eventually we decided we would since almost everyone in our town was going and we didn't want to miss out.

I had told my parents I was staying at a friend's house after the concert (I had planned to before we decided to go to the party) and on the way to the party I decided I didn't want to spend the night (didn't have anywhere to sleep, didn't really drink yet, etc). So we got there and found some other friends and after hanging out for a bit I started to say my goodbyes to head home.

Suddenly there was a huge commotion nearby where a DJ had set up a table and a huge floodlight to illuminate an area for people to dance. A bunch of people started screaming and running in all directions, the floodlight fell over and the music stopped. My friends and I were nearby standing around a large bonfire and we assumed "FIGHT!" so we started running towards it. That's when I saw a girl I've known since 3rd grade covered in blood and holding her boyfriend in her lap, just absolutely screaming like I've never heard anyone scream.

I saw a bunch of guys holding someone on the ground. One guy was on top of him beating the living shit out of him. A couple others pulled him off while the rest kept holding the guy. I turned to look for my friends and they had already run off, so I headed for where I saw them last. Couldn't find them. I started running for my truck, but before I could get to where it was parked about 6 or 7 police cars came screaming up the driveway and surrounded the only way out of the farm. They started shouting at people to get on the ground and were rounding up everyone who hadn't ran off on foot into the forest (most of those people ended up coming back because they either had nowhere to go (middle of nowhere on a farm) or their vehicle/belongings were still at the party).

I eventually met up with my friends and they were talking to someone a grade above us that I didn't really know. He saw everything. Two guys from a neighbouring town got into an argument. One shoved his girlfriend (my bloody friend) so her boyfriend hit him. First guy pulled a knife and stabbed him 8 times, killing him. What I saw was the aftermath.

I tried to leave but the police weren't letting anyone off the property. They said once it was light out they were going to be taking statements. They also told me my truck was being impounded because it was near the murder scene (a few vehicles near where the scuffle happened got blood or hand prints on them and lucky me, my truck was one of them).

So my friends and I had a few beers to calm our nerves, waited for the sun to come up, then got in line to talk to the cops. While I was in line I called home and told them what happened. My dad picked me up and was pretty pissed I never told them I was going to the party, asked if I was drunk or high, then calmed down when I told him I was sober and had intended on coming home when everything broke out. He had to drive me to work and school for a week while I waited to get my truck back.

Oh, and that morning I had a shift at McDonald's, and about 80% of the staff were at that party. I showed up for work at 11am and almost nobody was there. That was a nightmare shift, holy fuck. People that had to work that day just slowly trickled in as they were released, hungover or crying or both. Man that was weird, I forgot about that until just now.

Anyway here's a link www.durhamregion.com/news-story/3495137-appeals-court-denies-sentence-reduction-bid/

Theee was a guy about a half hour from my hometown that used to hire drifters to work his farm then kill them back in the 80’s when I was a kid. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_and_Faye_Copeland

In a town about forty five minutes away Seth Techel killed his pregnant wife to be with a girlfriend. I work in that town with several of his ex coworkers.

And I live about ninety minutes away from Mollie Tibbetts, which was the case du jour for a bit this year.

Oct 21, 2018 4:04:07 GMT mikec said:

Theee was a guy about a half hour from my hometown that used to hire drifters to work his farm then kill them back in the 80’s when I was a kid. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_and_Faye_Copeland

In a town about forty five minutes away Seth Techel killed his pregnant wife to be with a girlfriend. I work in that town with several of his ex coworkers.

And I live about ninety minutes away from Mollie Tibbetts, which was the case du jour for a bit this year.

I remember the Mollie Tibbetts case , and it's resurfacing up here as a possible connection to this case - which is just people grasping at straws and almost certainly not linked.

My junior sleuthing skills and instincts about this case is that it was 100% targeted - the police this still say they don't know if it was targeted or random but knowing the area that it happened and just other factors tell me that it doesn't make sense AT ALL to be a random act of violence. I think the perp wanted Jayme whether because she mistakenly gave out too much information online or he seen her around town. 

I've been off on my speculation about a half dozen times in this case so far though , but it's hard not to try and make sense of what happened. Both in hope for this little girl and the feeling or personal security around our area. 

I grew up in a very similar town, never heard of too much violent crime. But one day the father and son that ran the car lot my parents always got their cars from, and that I walked by pretty much every day were murdered in a suspected robbery. Kinda crazy walking by and seeing things all taped up.


When I lived in San Bernardino, there was this guy a block away who's wife was killed in a hit and right out in front of their house, and you could hear him out there at night (I'm assuming drunk) crying "Mi, amor." over and over. Really fucking heartbreaking.

Oct 21, 2018 13:02:56 GMT RagnarokMike said:

I grew up in a very similar town, never heard of too much violent crime. But one day the father and son that ran the car lot my parents always got their cars from, and that I walked by pretty much every day were murdered in a suspected robbery. Kinda crazy walking by and seeing things all taped up.


When I lived in San Bernardino, there was this guy a block away who's wife was killed in a hit and right out in front of their house, and you could hear him out there at night (I'm assuming drunk) crying "Mi, amor." over and over. Really fucking heartbreaking.

We drove by again yesterday on our way to the pumpkin patch and do some shopping and there is still a sinking feeling. Then the cops were down the road about 1/4 mile measuring stuff so it got out hopes up for some kind of break in the case. Any bit of information , none so far though. 

That second story is super heartbreaking. Poor guy.

Just gonna need to stop clicking new posts in this thread. Guess the only thing I can go with is my work had someone kidnapped on a route at gunpoint. Only know about it because I was looking something up and found a news story.

There was a school shooting out here around 17 years ago when I was still in high school. I remember when it happened one of my teachers had the news on one of those monitors that was used for class films. After it happened there was rumors swirling around my school that someone was gonna do the same thing, and there was apparently a planned out day so I told my Mom about this out of fear and stayed home from school. Thankfully nothing happened, just rumors.

Here’s the article about the guy responsible for the school shooting.

Two years ago there was an officer involved shooting just a few minutes away from where I work, and the police were surrounding the area for days because of all the protesting

link

Also growing up in Wisconsin I thought we were jaded to this knowing we were the home of Ed Gein. Which was also in rural WI. Also to be a bit jaded, I worked with a group of guys who all were related to the Cora Jones disappearance, rape, and murder which was close to the time I finished school. David Spanbauer is always one that I remember when people think that a child killer/rapist is going to get his in jail. Spanbauer lived to a ripe old age and died incarcerated. We are also home to Steven Avery of Making a Murderer fame. Many locals to my area know people connected to the Halbachs. So there is that too. All rural Wisconsin.

Closest to me is the disappearance of Laurie Depies. I worked at the mall she disappeared from at the time.

The Humboldt Broncos bus crash. The (now ex) team president who was all over the news was my grade 9-11 history and math teacher and principle at my mom's high school. An assistant coach on the bus who passed away was the son of one of my mom's teachers and another guy who managed to survive, his cousin was a teammate of mine in hockey.

Oct 24, 2018 20:08:19 GMT theend said:

Also growing up in Wisconsin I thought we were jaded to this knowing we were the home of Ed Gein. Which was also in rural WI. Also to be a bit jaded, I worked with a group of guys who all were related to the Cora Jones disappearance, rape, and murder which was close to the time I finished school. David Spanbauer is always one that I remember when people think that a child killer/rapist is going to get his in jail. Spanbauer lived to a ripe old age and died incarcerated. We are also home to Steven Avery of Making a Murderer fame. Many locals to my area know people connected to the Halbachs. So there is that too. All rural Wisconsin.

Closest to me is the disappearance of Laurie Depies. I worked at the mall she disappeared from at the time.

We also had Dahmer , which wasn't rural but still Wisconsin. You're not wrong that things like that obviously happen - but all those you mentioned weren't around me and not something I had to see in everyday life. 

And like the Avery/Halbach case , I'm beginning to think this isn't going to have any conclusion. A baffling case with 1000 different theories. 

UT,yeah, I kinda realized they were a couple hours from you. Many of the mentions I made were rural. I didn't know if on that side of the state a couple hours felt closer. I mean, you have to drive 20 minutes to buy a new kitchen garbage can in an lot of those areas.

Oct 25, 2018 16:29:47 GMT theend said:

UT,yeah, I kinda realized they were a couple hours from you. Many of the mentions I made were rural. I didn't know if on that side of the state a couple hours felt closer. I mean, you have to drive 20 minutes to buy a new kitchen garbage can in an lot of those areas.

About a half hour in every direction. Closer to 20 minutes from the actual crime scene to a department store of any kind.

My grandparents apparently lived about a half hour from the Gein stuff as it was happening. If I remember correctly that was more of a startling discovery as opposed to a incredibly personal murder/kidnapping.

I live in a big city so there have been high-profile murders and things of that nature that have made the news, but in terms of stuff that has made the news outside of my city or the UK in general, there have only been three that I can recall in the last decade or so and two happened in the space of twelve months.

I remember the first (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_Airport_attack) and I was only 14 or so and of course, the London bombings had happened only a couple of years prior. I remember seeing it on the news and being terrified out of my mind and asking my parents so many questions. I'd obviously seen it in London but this was confirmation to me that it could happen here too. Thankfully, no one was hurt and one of the terrorists got a kick in the balls too.

The second and third were just horrible accidents but they shocked the city. The first (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Glasgow_helicopter_crash) was devastating. I remember spending much of my night just watching rolling news coverage of it and hearing rescue efforts and the death toll rising, horrible. They renovated the pub and have many memorials and things to it now but it was a really terrible thing.

The third (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Glasgow_bin_lorry_crash) probably could've been prevented. The driver of the lorry had a lot of sympathy as he blacked out while driving which caused the accident but eventually it came out that he had a history of blacking out but failed to disclose it. So, in short, he should never have been behind the wheel. This was so, so heartbreaking, given the time of year and it also happened just one year after the helicopter crash. The stories were awful and I still remember the pictures of many of the victims in my head.

It was a busy area which is always busy, it could've been anyone. It is still surreal.

From tragedy to triumph. This girl somehow got away from her captor yesterday and was found. 88 days.

I can’t believe it really.

I figured you’d update this. What an ordeal. Can’t believe she is alive.

I hope she gets the help she’ll definitely need to recover from this.

Jan 11, 2019 17:43:22 GMT RT said:

I figured you’d update this. What an ordeal. Can’t believe she is alive.

I hope she gets the help she’ll definitely need to recover from this.

Yeah it’s crazy , I jumped out of my chair reading it last night. Some information is coming out now but I’m curious to see what went down as there still isn’t a ton of answers.

Either day. Great day!

Wow! That poor girl. I can't imagine to emotional and mental pain she is going to have to get over.

Was it someone she knew?

Jan 11, 2019 23:54:14 GMT iron maiden said:

Wow! That poor girl. I can't imagine to emotional and mental pain she is going to have to get over.

Was it someone she knew?

They haven’t made any connections yet.

I live in the LA/OC area and all kinds of murders and stuff happen on streets I've often been on. You kind of just start tuning it out since it's too much to process.

So they've released the 12 page criminal complaint , containing the gory details that make you just queasy reading them. I had a few tears for this poor family reading it. The kid admitted to everything and detailed every step. He's the definition of a monster.

One of the scariest parts of it all though is that it was completely random. The suspect was driving home from work one day , stopped behind the girls (Jayme's) bus and decided that was the girl he was going to take. That's insanity and he spend the next two weeks planning the murder and abduction of this completely innocent and unsuspecting family. It really could have been anyone on that bus route. I know iron maiden asked about the connection so I figured I'd update it.

How does someone become that monster? It's not normal but hapens more often then we'd like to think about.

According to what I have seen there is nothing explicitly sexual in this case which is an interesting wrinkle. A common theory when it comes to school shooters is that some are doing it to be infamous. To gain the notoriety that the original Columbine killers got and they fixate on it. And the internet provides an awesome echo chamber to fixate on anything. So they do. I find this very plausible. And I find this could be plausible for this guy. I feel he was just looking for a victim and decided on one.

Trivia points I find odd. Two weeks of planning. Some of it pretty elaborate. Shaving head so no DNA left. But at the same time, the shelter he used to detain her was just makeshift totes prison under his bed. Not an ankle chain or a secured closet?

Second oddity trivia. Her rescuers call the cops, the man of the house grabs his gun just in case Senor Psychopath comes to claim his prize ala Mark Wahlberg in the movie Fear. The kids and dog are sent to the basement while husband and wife wait for the cops to arrive. When the cops arrive they send the lady of the house to the basement. The man of the house is sent to guard the back door. That seems like an odd risk to take. Odd liability. Like, did they not send enough cops?

To your first point about nothing explicitly sexual in the case as of yet , that's probably more less semantics than anything. If he would to have assaulted her (and I believe he had to of) than those cases would be brought against him in Douglas County where his cabin was and where she was captive for 88 days. Everything he's been charged with thus far , the double murder , the kidnapping and burglary took place in Barron county on the 15th of October. The Douglas County DA said in the press conference yesterday there could be more charges to come but wouldn't elaborate until he discussed it with the family. My presumption of that is that she was repeatedly assaulted at the cabin but before bringing it to court and making the records public he wants to pass it through the family because Jayme has clearly been through enough. They have more than enough to put him away forever without the rape/assault charges so they might choose to forego those charges and save Jayme some face.

To the second point , I think he was arrogant and knew he had the fear factor over her after murdering her parents in front of her. Her dad she didn't witness but she did witness him murder her mother in cold blood right in front of her , along with the beatings she endured if she didn't listen. After two weeks he also stated he thought he had gotten away with it. He also did admit that the latter half of his plan he didn't put as much thought into - most of it went into getting her back to his house that night.

To the last point , I'm sure the cops arrived at different intervals. I assume you know what Northern Wisconsin is like - there might only be one cop on duty within 30 minutes from that place and it could take longer for backup to continue to arrive. Rural Gordon is the epitome of Bumfuck Egypt so although I never read those exact details (I did listen to the 911 call) I don't see it as that shocking. And Jake Patterson was detained rather quickly.

Another thing I don't get and kind of pisses me off in this case , is that they allowed him a chance at bail. Granted its 5 Million dollars and Wisconsin is a cash bail state so he would have to conjure up 5 Million in cash money to get out but why's there even that chance? Why not just remand him without any possibility of bail considering that he admitted to every disgusting detail.

That just prompts other psychopaths to start a GoFundMe for him , which is disgusting. Obviously GoFundMe shut it down quickly but it raised $410 - who the fuck donates to this? What is wrong with the world today.

We discussed the bail money too. Can you imagine if he whipped out his phone and quickly converted some bitcoin and asked to leave? Or his parents posted it for him. Wow. I guess and only a guess that everyone gets bail set and a number has to come from somewhere.