Jan 23, 2019 0:05:30 GMT @admin said:

Jan 22, 2019 23:56:34 GMT thereallt said:

As a high school kid I was a lot less mature.  And DID NOT put up with people getting in my face like that.  Personal space is VERY important to me.   

The only nonsense here is you saying a hat with the letters MAGA is somehow inflammatory like it's a Klan hood.  That is outright ridiculous.   It is a hat with a campaign slogan , NOTHING MORE.   If you're offended by it that is frankly your problem.  Go to a cop and complain about someone wearing a MAGA hat.  I guarantee that cop will laugh his ever-loving ass off.  

    And the fact you are co-signing a high school kid getting bullied and harassed by adults tells me everything I need to know.  Frankly it's pathetic. 

I'm not shocked to hear that you were/are a hothead. 

MAGA is a campaign slogan for a man who ran for office on a platform based largely around divisiveness and discrimination. I am certainly not suggesting that anyone is committing some sort of crime by wearing one - just that anyone who does clearly has impaired judgement and/or is not much resembling a decent person.

I've mellowed a lot since high school.    I would warn the person first now.  But I STILL don't like people getting in my face like that. 

I certainly did not vote for Trump.  But everyone who did had their own reasons for voting for him.   Assuming someone is bigoted or racist because of it is ignorant IMO.    Walking up to a PRO-LIFE rally and getting angry because people there are wearing MAGA hats is also ignorant IMO.    Who do you think goes to Pro-Life rallies?   It's a safe bet the majority of them are likely Trump supporters.    It's not like they were showing up to a Bernie Sanders rally

There also is absolutely a historical link between the Catholic anti-abortion campaign and racism which we haven't touched on in this discussion yet. And MAGA is absolutely linked to that because of its nostalgia for a time when minorities were more suppressed.

Jan 23, 2019 0:24:08 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 23, 2019 0:09:37 GMT iron maiden said:

Agreed @admin .  And by wearing one you are agreeing to and endorsing those same divisive and discriminatory lines of thoughts. 

It's like wearing a Bill Cosby shirt to an anti rape rally.

How long are your arms?

Because DAMN, that Cosby part was a helluva reach.

I do have freakishly short arms.   I swear my mom took Fen Phen when she was pregnant with me.

Jan 23, 2019 0:28:06 GMT @admin said:

There also is absolutely a historical link between the Catholic anti-abortion campaign and racism which we haven't touched on in this discussion yet. And MAGA is absolutely linked to that because of its nostalgia for a time when minorities were more suppressed.

Seriously??  I could just as easily argue there is a historical link between pro-abortion campaigns and racism.    And MAGA can just as easily linked to a time when the country prospered, when good work was much easier to find, when your kids could play it in the yard without risk of being kidnapped.     It can mean ANY number of things.   Since when does one person get to dictate to another what is acceptable and what is not, especially in the short time period that Trump has been President?

Jan 23, 2019 0:38:34 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 23, 2019 0:28:06 GMT @admin said:

There also is absolutely a historical link between the Catholic anti-abortion campaign and racism which we haven't touched on in this discussion yet. And MAGA is absolutely linked to that because of its nostalgia for a time when minorities were more suppressed.

eriously??  I could just as easily argue there is a historical link between pro-abortion campaigns and racism.    And MAGA can just as easily linked to a time when the country prospered, when good work was much easier to find, when your kids could play it in the yard without risk of being kidnapped.     It can mean ANY number of things.   Since when does one person get to dictate to another what is acceptable and what is not, especially in the short time period that Trump has been President?

Go for it - I'm intrigued. I don't claim to be an expert so I'm interested to see what you've got. Are you anti abortion?

Perhaps those things re: MAGA are true. Do you think that these school kids were wearing their caps for those reasons?

Jan 23, 2019 0:45:36 GMT @admin said:

Jan 23, 2019 0:38:34 GMT thereallt said:

eriously??  I could just as easily argue there is a historical link between pro-abortion campaigns and racism.    And MAGA can just as easily linked to a time when the country prospered, when good work was much easier to find, when your kids could play it in the yard without risk of being kidnapped.     It can mean ANY number of things.   Since when does one person get to dictate to another what is acceptable and what is not, especially in the short time period that Trump has been President?

Go for it - I'm intrigued. I don't claim to be an expert so I'm interested to see what you've got. Are you anti abortion?

Perhaps those things re: MAGA are true. Do you think that these school kids were wearing their caps for those reasons?

I don't really have much of an opinion on abortion myself.  I think it's an issue that should be decided by women.

As for the connection between abortion and racism,  we can start with the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, a known racist and supporter of Eugenics.  A woman who also gave lectures in front of the Ku Klux Klan.  We can also look at the fact that the rates of abortion are FAR higher among African Americans than they are any other community. 

As for why the kids were wearing MAGA hats...I see two main reasons. 

A. Their parents voted for Trump.
B.They were at a pro-life rally and Trump ran as a pro-life candidate.  I find it a little silly to suggest the kids were trying to stir up trouble when they were at a pro-life rally and the BHI and Mr. Phillips were the ones crashing the party.  

Jan 23, 2019 0:24:08 GMT KING KID said:

Jan 23, 2019 0:09:37 GMT iron maiden said:

Agreed @admin .  And by wearing one you are agreeing to and endorsing those same divisive and discriminatory lines of thoughts. 

It's like wearing a Bill Cosby shirt to an anti rape rally.

How long are your arms?

Because DAMN, that Cosby part was a helluva reach.

You really don't understand metaphors do you?

If you want further support of the notion of planned Parenthood as racist you can look at the current demographics of who gets abortions by race and try to pin that back on planned Parenthood as well. Planned Parenthood makes a disproportionate amount of money aborting black babies to white women.

How did we get into a race/abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I thought this thread was 'are these teenagers shit stirring assholes or misunderstood assholes? All teenagers are assholes so that's not up for debate.

Jan 23, 2019 1:08:39 GMT iron maiden said:

How did we get into a race/abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I thought this thread was 'are these teenagers shit stirring assholes or misunderstood assholes? All teenagers are assholes so that's not up for debate.

Well, it was at a pro life rally.

Jan 23, 2019 0:54:46 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 23, 2019 0:45:36 GMT @admin said:

Go for it - I'm intrigued. I don't claim to be an expert so I'm interested to see what you've got. Are you anti abortion?

Perhaps those things re: MAGA are true. Do you think that these school kids were wearing their caps for those reasons?

I don't really have much of an opinion on abortion myself.  I think it's an issue that should be decided by women.

As for the connection between abortion and racism,  we can start with the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, a known racist and supporter of Eugenics.  A woman who also gave lectures in front of the Ku Klux Klan.  We can also look at the fact that the rates of abortion are FAR higher among African Americans than they are any other community. 

As for why the kids were wearing MAGA hats...I see two main reasons. 

A. Their parents voted for Trump.
B.They were at a pro-life rally and Trump ran as a pro-life candidate.  I find it a little silly to suggest the kids were trying to stir up trouble when they were at a pro-life rally and the BHI and Mr. Phillips were the ones crashing the party.  

I've just done some very quick reading on Sanger - she's interesting! She was in favour of birth control and anti-abortion though so it's not quite the same. 

In my initial post up the top of this page I was talking about how the Catholic anti-abortion campaign (particularly during the 60s and 70s) was linked and relied upon their attempts to continue segregation and division. It is not difficult to see how these things are again paralleled in today's climate of fractiousness. 

Jan 23, 2019 1:08:39 GMT iron maiden said:

How did we get into a race/abortion/Planned Parenthood debate? I thought this thread was 'are these teenagers shit stirring assholes or misunderstood assholes? All teenagers are assholes so that's not up for debate.

They may very well be assholes, but they weren't the ones stirring the shit.  That would be the Black Hebrew Israelites and Mr. Nathan Phillips.

Trump ran as a pro life candidate and campaigned heavily for it. He has a huge pro-life following, I’m in a pro-Trump group on Facebook and they never shut up about that issue. It’s like wearing a wrestling shirt to a WWE event, it’s to be expected.

I have a MAGA hat, and people have just told me cool hat/asked if they can take a photo of them wearing the hat the few times I’ve worn it. I’m not much of a hat person in general though.




Also yet another retraction with this story.

www.conservativereview.com/news/nathan-phillips-vietnam-war-veteran-never-fought-in-the-vietnam-war/

Jan 23, 2019 1:43:41 GMT System said:

Trump ran as a pro life candidate and campaigned heavily for it. He has a huge pro-life following, I’m in a pro-Trump group on Facebook and they never shut up about that issue. It’s like wearing a wrestling shirt to a WWE event, it’s to be expected.

I have a MAGA hat, and people have just told me cool hat/asked if they can take a photo of them wearing the hat the few times I’ve worn it. I’m not much of a hat person in general though.




Also yet another retraction with this story.

www.conservativereview.com/news/nathan-phillips-vietnam-war-veteran-never-fought-in-the-vietnam-war/

I live in Williams lake, BC. northern interior of bc, very redneck. Always vote in right wing candidates....

Last year at a wrestling show in Vancouver there was a guy that got the most heat simply by being a trump supporter and wearing a maga hat. After the show I had the hat on, and people on the street were super vocal and angry at me. I've heard this is quite a common reaction. 

Why do you wear it System? Do you support discrimination? I don't see how any of the "normalising" appeals of MAGA that LT posited early (and I'm still sceptical of these, but that's another discussion) have any influence on you as a millennial(?) in Australia so it seems bizarre unless you are just a dick. Maybe you just like the attention?

Didn’t iron maiden already tell everyone to play nice? 😒

I like Trump, I bought his merch. Simple as that.

Just trying to wrap my head around something that's really baffling to me. I try to understand why people arrive at their point of views. I understand why Incy says some of the things he does because he's religious, old and (apparently) well off.

You're interesting because I can't tell where it's coming from. There's definitely more to it than what you've said there (if you just "liked" Trump for his personality you wouldn't be posting links to conservative websites or angsty memes), but if you don't want to talk about it that's fine.

Jan 22, 2019 14:35:16 GMT System said:

Anyone that played highschool basketball in the US experienced anything similar?

Also I’m very doubtful hat guy was even there anyway,
obviously thousands of people can go to the same high school,

Jan 22, 2019 14:23:10 GMT Call said:

This thread got locked the first time because of how it was brought up, sorry System but you biased it toward your views from the title to your opening sentence. LT has done it in a way that has promoted discussion from both sides.

@the Kid I mightn't like what you say and find some of the things you've bragged about in the past distasteful when it comes to women, but you are free to speak your mind.

As for the photos from that basketball game, it shows a staggering lack of common sense and no matter how you try to slice it, blackface is racist.

If I made a thread in WWE that said

X Wrestler is garbage

Here’s why x Wrestler is garbage

It would be fine, and people would just post
why they think x Wrestler is garbage or not.

What’s the difference?




Edit: not my thread but here’s an example.
pwcom.proboards.com/thread/1528/cole-graves-awful

Just to address this now because at damn near 2am last night, I would not have created a coherent response.

Wrestling is an escapism, an art form for a lot of us here and expressions such as hate crime or "being a white man standing" are not likely to get brought up in a "Wrestler X sucks and here's why discussion" Consciously or not, the language used can be seen as inflammatory.

Last of all, in todays world, wrestling is nowhere near as divisive as real life, i'm pretty sure there'd always be a few pieces of middle ground both sides of any argument could agree on 

"Becky fans need to tone it down just a little"
"Andrades name change isn't as big a deal as folks are making out"
"Drew Mcintyre is much better in WWE this time around" 

None of those statements are really controversial.

I voted for Hilary. But some 45% of the country voted for trump. Is it really that shocking to run across his supporters or people who agree with some of trump? Especially at a pro choice rally?

It's like nonsmokers trying to understand smokers and they just keep asking, why would you do that? It seems stupid to me. I can't believe you smoke. Can't you tell you smell? Well, some people enjoy smoking. cigarettes are sold at damn near every convenience store in the country. People are going to smoke.


Frankly it's a bit disappointing that administrators and moderators are seeming to be the most intolerant and confrontational. Maybe I'm way off.

@call I’m not really following your logic but OT threads are all controversial lately, as that’s what posters find engaging. I don’t see how mine was any different and I don’t see a rule saying you can’t make controversial threads/statements or post a thread from your own POV.

The guy in the hat is being accused of a hate crime though, that’s kind of hard to avoid when discussing this. I didn’t even mention Nathan Phillips’ race in the original thread before it got locked for “race baiting”

What kind of constructive discussion were you looking to have with the title 'Standing While White'? I could see why it could be seen as a troll and not worth the energy.

 
Big Pete the story is about a white guy standing still being perceived as offensive, 
seemed fitting to me. 

Jan 23, 2019 4:33:48 GMT theend said:

I voted for Hilary. But some 45% of the country voted for trump. Is it really that shocking to wrong across his supporters or people who agree with some of trump? Especially at a pro choice rally?

It's like nonsmokers trying to understand smokers and they just keep asking, why would you do that? It seems stupid to me. I can't believe you smoke. Can't you tell you smell? Well, some people enjoy smoking. cigarettes are sold at damn near every convenience store in the country. People are going to smoke.


Frankly it's a bit disappointing that administrators and moderators are seeming to be the most intolerant and confrontational. Maybe I'm way off.

It was a pro-life rally.

Agreed, I enjoy posting in threads like this as you get a wide array of opinions, as oppose to other social media I post on that’s mostly an echo chamber. Isn’t really encouraging to post when people are being told to fuck off/called dumb or a dick by mods/admins.

Jan 23, 2019 4:33:48 GMT theend said:

I voted for Hilary. But some 45% of the country voted for trump. Is it really that shocking to wrong across his supporters or people who agree with some of trump? Especially at a pro choice rally?

It's like nonsmokers trying to understand smokers and they just keep asking, why would you do that? It seems stupid to me. I can't believe you smoke. Can't you tell you smell? Well, some people enjoy smoking. cigarettes are sold at damn near every convenience store in the country. People are going to smoke.


Frankly it's a bit disappointing that administrators and moderators are seeming to be the most intolerant and confrontational. Maybe I'm way off.

Intolerant of individuals who support intolerance perhaps. I understand why System was upset that his thread was locked, but he's had the reason explained to him, and we've ended up talking about it anyway.

I've largely stayed out of political threads here in the past because it's felt fairly futile with the group of posters we have (and also because I've felt like my voice is over represented on these forums as it is) but there's only so much crap you can read before you feel compelled to say something. I recently read a comment on another site about how not challenging alt-right opinions is dangerous because it normalises an oppressive voice, and that struck a bit of a chord with me, so you're all just going to have to live with me. 😊

Big Pete the story is about a white guy standing still being perceived as offensive,

That's one facet of the story, but there's a way to discuss the situation without making it about identity politics.

Just be more specific next time.

Crisis actor confirmed.

And you all wonder why I flew off the handle.

Overall I just cannot see how any rational person can watch that entire video and come to the conclusion the Covington students were at fault. There is A REASON the mainstream press is retracting this story and running away from it at light speed. You can bet lawsuits and settlements will soon follow, especially considering the Covington students have been getting death threats and have been getting doxed over this incident. Which is pretty damn pathetic in itself.

Jan 23, 2019 4:33:48 GMT theend said:

I voted for Hilary. But some 45% of the country voted for trump. Is it really that shocking to wrong across his supporters or people who agree with some of trump? Especially at a pro choice rally?

It's like nonsmokers trying to understand smokers and they just keep asking, why would you do that? It seems stupid to me. I can't believe you smoke. Can't you tell you smell? Well, some people enjoy smoking. cigarettes are sold at damn near every convenience store in the country. People are going to smoke.


Frankly it's a bit disappointing that administrators and moderators are seeming to be the most intolerant and confrontational. Maybe I'm way off.

When i'm feeling less lazy and strangled by the heat, i'll probably make a thread for this separate from this discussion since i'd love to hear the defense of smoking in this day and age given everything we know about tobacco and cigarettes in general.

Now you all quoted me and I am embarrassed by my spell check for "wrong" and "run".


Just out of respect for language "alt-right opinions " is a strong term that generally is an attempt to kill the conversation. Alt-Right as defined by the left who never talked to anyone from the alt-right? Someone who only heard alt-right on the news? Or from the alt-right themselves?

Similar to saying someone is intolerant without action. Or throwing out Trump is a racist. It's an easy stone to cast. But when you casting that stone you are killing the conversation with 45% of the nation. Or even just the 30% that still find him favorable you are killing the conversation. Not engaging or learning.

System and that kid may have a million and one reasons to have a Trump hat and as much as 55% to 70% of the nation may disagree with them, shouting them down, censoring them, and yelling names and conversation killers at them is not a way to get them woke. If anything it isolates them and buries them down deeper. This is in part why you see more of the right wing expression online than you do above ground. Yelling from ivory towers have made the right bury down and become more explicit underground. In my opinion, it is better to engage and educate than to think calling someone a racist is going to eliminate their racism. Or to call them racist just because he has a Trump hat. Imagine if you will, a trump supporter that is not racist. Every president has had policies that could be considered racist with enough generous interpretation. Can you believe there are Trump supporters that are not intolerant who may not see their hat as an inflammatory bad thing? Because I bet my ass, they do. Reach out and understand why, without name calling, flaming and baiting or shutting down their conversation.

I'm from Wisconsin. I like the south. Traveling the south and talking to locals and hearing their views and talking to them is eye-opening in comparison to being in the great white north (not race, snow). The south has had serious racism and open racism in recent memory. They have a walkable and physical history of the slave trade, civil rights, and people's grandparents had "help" just like the movie. But in the north that is all almost surreal. We are distant from it and sometimes can't comprehend it. It's easy for us in the north to not understand and be intolerant of anyone who is still adjusting to integration. But going down there, talking to people, engaging with them is eye-opening and maybe it is eye-opening to them as well. Diversity sometimes isn't just about spending time and understanding the struggles of those who don't look like you but also spending time and understanding those who don't think like you.

Jan 22, 2019 3:44:47 GMT @admin said:

I have no real interest in the "this is the true story about what happened!!" part of the story

 Gold. I couldn't have set it up any better if I tried. Here's the money line in this whole shitstorm of a thread/situation. Truth is irrelevant. Some people just want to be outraged. 

The only thing wrong with System 's first thread was he should have included Smiling in the title since that's what really seems to have set the mob off. This is straight out of George Orwell's 1984...



When I read 1984 I thought it was the ultimate in crapsack worlds. Yet some people seem to have viewed it as an instruction manual. Sad.

But even Orwell wasn't prescient enough to predict the ABSOLUTE HORROR of Hatcrime....



Anyway, the kids did absolutely nothing wrong. If anybody is a villain here it's the Black Hebrew Israelites for shouting insults at the KY kids, the Native Americans, and anybody else who happened to pass by for over an hour. Wtf! THAT'S where the outrage should be directed. But because we live in Clown World it's completely glossed over in most quarters while all the focus is on such horrors as STANDING! SMILING! SINGING! Also, Nathan Phillips got in Sandmann's face and started drumming. Sandmann instigated nothing and I give him props for not backing down. 

But there may be a silver lining or two after all. These kids come from money and they're not backing down. Lawsuits have been threatened. I'm desperately hoping a few of these garbage media outlets and the mob they drummed up fucked with the wrong people this time. With any luck a few of these shitty media outlets are gonna get Gawkered. I'm not the slightest bit religious but fuck it. I'll pray for this to happen. Hell, I will even donate to their legal fund (and/or buy some Covington Catholic merchandise) with the money I'm saving by not purchasing Procter & Gamble products. There were also rumors of the kids being invited to the White House. Last I checked those rumors have been debunked. But the idea is out there now. With any luck President Trump will invite a few of his wronged supporters to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. 

In closing, I will attempt to bring PW together with a classic song almost everybody enjoys. A little....

Enter Sandmann




*New avatar time. Solidarity!