Jan 23, 2019 15:07:54 GMT Baker said:

Jan 22, 2019 3:44:47 GMT @admin said:

I have no real interest in the "this is the true story about what happened!!" part of the story

 Gold. I couldn't have set it up any better if I had tried. Here's the money line in this whole shitstorm of a thread/situation. Truth is irrelevant. Some people just want to be outraged. 

The only thing wrong with System 's first thread was he should have included Smiling in the title since that's what really seems to have set the mob off. This is straight out of George Orwell's 1984...



When I read 1984 I thought it was the ultimate in crapsack worlds. Yet some people seem to have viewed it as an instruction manual. Sad.

But even Orwell wasn't prescient enough to predict the ABSOLUTE HORROR of Hatcrime....



Anyway, the kids did absolutely nothing wrong. If anybody is a villain here it's the Black Hebrew Israelites for shouting insults at the KY kids, the Native Americans, and anybody else who happened to pass by for over an hour. Wtf! THAT'S where the outrage should be directed. But because we live in Clown World it's completely glossed over in most quarters while all the focus is on such horrors as STANDING! SMILING! SINGING! Also, Nathan Phillips got in Sandmann's face and started drumming. Sandmann instigated nothing and I give him props for not backing down. 

But there may be a silver lining or two after all. These kids come from money and they're not backing down. Lawsuits have been threatened. I'm desperately hoping a few of these garbage media outlets and the mob they drummed up fucked with the wrong people this time. With any luck a few of these shitty media outlets are gonna get Gawkered. I'm not the slightest bit religious but fuck it. I'll pray for this to happen. Hell, I will even donate to their legal fund (and/or buy some Covington Catholic merchandise) with the money I'm saving by not purchasing Procter & Gamble products. There were also rumors of the kids being invited to the White House. Last I checked those rumors have been debunked. But the idea is out there now. With any luck President Trump will invite a few of his wronged supporters to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. 

In closing, I will attempt to bring PW together with a classic song almost everybody enjoys. A little....

Enter Sandmann




*New avatar time. Solidarity!

I can't like this post enough.   

Jan 23, 2019 15:39:47 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 23, 2019 15:07:54 GMT Baker said:

 Gold. I couldn't have set it up any better if I had tried. Here's the money line in this whole shitstorm of a thread/situation. Truth is irrelevant. Some people just want to be outraged. 

The only thing wrong with System 's first thread was he should have included Smiling in the title since that's what really seems to have set the mob off. This is straight out of George Orwell's 1984...



When I read 1984 I thought it was the ultimate in crapsack worlds. Yet some people seem to have viewed it as an instruction manual. Sad.

But even Orwell wasn't prescient enough to predict the ABSOLUTE HORROR of Hatcrime....



Anyway, the kids did absolutely nothing wrong. If anybody is a villain here it's the Black Hebrew Israelites for shouting insults at the KY kids, the Native Americans, and anybody else who happened to pass by for over an hour. Wtf! THAT'S where the outrage should be directed. But because we live in Clown World it's completely glossed over in most quarters while all the focus is on such horrors as STANDING! SMILING! SINGING! Also, Nathan Phillips got in Sandmann's face and started drumming. Sandmann instigated nothing and I give him props for not backing down. 

But there may be a silver lining or two after all. These kids come from money and they're not backing down. Lawsuits have been threatened. I'm desperately hoping a few of these garbage media outlets and the mob they drummed up fucked with the wrong people this time. With any luck a few of these shitty media outlets are gonna get Gawkered. I'm not the slightest bit religious but fuck it. I'll pray for this to happen. Hell, I will even donate to their legal fund (and/or buy some Covington Catholic merchandise) with the money I'm saving by not purchasing Procter & Gamble products. There were also rumors of the kids being invited to the White House. Last I checked those rumors have been debunked. But the idea is out there now. With any luck President Trump will invite a few of his wronged supporters to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. 

In closing, I will attempt to bring PW together with a classic song almost everybody enjoys. A little....

Enter Sandmann




*New avatar time. Solidarity!

I can't like this post enough.   

I feel the same way about a lot of posts in this thread and the locked one. That's why I dished out about 30 "likes" this morning. 

So the kids yelling about rape...



..and yelling slut at these girls...

Are not to blame for any instigation at all? Just the black guys shouting stuff and the native dude who played a drum. Sensing a theme here.

And those are just the videos that we know of.

If Nathan Phillips approaching the students and the black guys yelling homophobic slurs is relevant and exonerates these kids, then I’m not sure what to make of these other videos nobody defending them seems to want to post.

RT, I agree and to be fair, this part of the narrative had been left out of the original news story that triggered a bunch of folks too. A fake twitter account spread out a tidbit and people picked sides quick without knowing half the data. It's like no one watches Dateline, 20/20 or 48 hrs. Those shows taught me not to pass judgment until at least halfway through the show.

Jan 23, 2019 17:11:11 GMT theend said:

RT, I agree and to be fair, this part of the narrative had been left out of the original news story that triggered a bunch of folks too. A fake twitter account spread out a tidbit and people picked sides quick without knowing half the data. It's like no one watches Dateline, 20/20 or 48 hrs. Those shows taught me not to pass judgment until at least halfway through the show.

Right, but this part of the narrative has been ignored in this thread too. And it keeps getting ignored by people defending these teenagers.

I just pointed it out because if you’re going to jump to the defence of the students and ignore this part of it, while also using the videos of Phillips and the black people as reasons why you’re defending them, then you’re no better than anyone else arguing over this situation.

Its been long enough now that we don’t really need to argue over who formed what opinion when, or how the media handled it, or whatever. All that’s over with. What needs to happen now is looking at all the facts we know and forming a new opinion instead of clinging to whatever we first felt when the initial picture and video started circulating. And this situation is a good example of why that needs to happen in a lot of different aspects of life, particularly in politics and what have you.

Clinging to this idea of a wall after what we all know is just as silly to me as thinking wearing a MAGA hat in public isn’t going to piss people off. It’s been over two years and we have countless examples of why neither one will result in anything good. It’s as silly as thinking that walking up to some rowdy students with a drum is somehow worse than shouting about rape or chanting “BUILD THE WALL” at fucking Native Americans, who were kinda here first.

RT, no disagreement on my part on multiple parts have been ignored.

I do feel there is still room for discussion on how media handles things. But that, for me personally is more than what it seems. I recently visited my friend the south and went to the lynching memorial and came home and read a book about the Tulsa race riot and how the owned media swayed things up into a frenzy and helped drive up the race riot. It seems this a common story in the past that some media has fueled the flames of lynch mobs. It was a common theme of people afraid of the #metoo era and it is a theme now by the right not wanting to be targeted but represented. It is not too hard to see how this kid could be labeled alt-right and someone could go too far. But I am rambling a bit.


But I need to get woke on the whole wall bit. Immigration has never been a mental issue for me. I just generally figure that the process could be made easier for people to get in. I am the grandson of an illegal immigrant and my wife is the daughter of legal immigrants. But still, I thought the only issue was we need to make it easier to let people in. I am not educated on the subject and I have a lot of learning to do. The only interesting argument I have heard is that it should not be an unscreened individual to enter this country after entering illegally just because they are coming from south of the border than it is for someone coming from overseas. I am not explaining it well, but I feel there is some sense to that. Just because someone can barge their way in logistically shouldn't give them priority over someone who I watch on 90-day fiance coming in on a K-1 visa.

Then again, I wish most countries would let me easily become a citizen. Borders and immigration are all weird for me.

I’m with you on borders and immigration and all that. Homegrown terrorism is vastly more of an issue around the world.

There have been several campaigns over the years both in Canada and other countries for citizens of the Commonwealth to have passports/Visas that allow them free passage in the Commonwealth countries. I support stuff like that 100%.

Jan 23, 2019 16:49:40 GMT RT said:

So the kids yelling about rape...



..and yelling slut at these girls...

Are not to blame for any instigation at all? Just the black guys shouting stuff and the native dude who played a drum. Sensing a theme here.

And those are just the videos that we know of.

If Nathan Phillips approaching the students and the black guys yelling homophobic slurs is relevant and exonerates these kids, then I’m not sure what to make of these other videos nobody defending them seems to want to post.

 A 30 sec clip and an 8 sec clip with no context behind them....

Color me unimpressed.     How do you think this whole mess started in the first place?

And you still continue to ignore the relevant facts and then try a race bait right afterward.   That doesn't change the fact it was the Black Hebrew Israelites  and Mr. Nathan Phillips that instigated and provoked this situation.     As I said before there is a reason the mainstream press is retracting and running away from this story at warp speed.

Wearing a MAGA hat DOES NOT give a person the right to invade a person's personal space, verbally assault them, and then harass them.    Especially considering ONCE AGAIN who the adults and who the children were in this situation.

Jan 23, 2019 18:08:04 GMT RT said:

I’m with you on borders and immigration and all that. Homegrown terrorism is vastly more of an issue around the world.

There have been several campaigns over the years both in Canada and other countries for citizens of the Commonwealth to have passports/Visas that allow them free passage in the Commonwealth countries. I support stuff like that 100%.

Please.  The United States of America has some of the most LAX immigration laws around the world, all we asked is that those law be OBEYED.  There is no inherent right to immigrate to the US, or any other country for that matter.   I find it hilarious that Canadians and Mexicans wave their fingers at us about immigration when both countries immigration laws are stricter than ours.

I didn’t ignore any facts, I simply added more. If one video holds up then they all do. None of them have any context before or after the video because none of that can be proven.

And I’m not race baiting, I just can’t think of any other reason why the videos of the white kids are being ignored and the videos of the Native and black people are proof that they were wrong. I’m open to suggestions.

To clarify my comment that Baker quoted, I meant that I was not interested in the minutia of the interaction as it really makes no difference to the broader issue.

If you genuinely think that the school kids are completely innocent when there is clear evidence of them exhibiting racist behavior both here and in the past, and/or you actually support that a school would transport teenage boys across the country to protest abortion then I don't think there's much reasoning with you.

Jan 23, 2019 18:08:04 GMT RT said:

I’m with you on borders and immigration and all that. Homegrown terrorism is vastly more of an issue around the world.

There have been several campaigns over the years both in Canada and other countries for citizens of the Commonwealth to have passports/Visas that allow them free passage in the Commonwealth countries. I support stuff like that 100%.

You don't want the open passport thing as it means that some countries have shitty entry standards, people flood in through that loophole and begin filling up the most desirable countries with welfare bludging do-nones.
Then you get over-reactions like Brexit.

In my country I would 100% stop immigration from predominantly Muslim countries as 100% of our terrorist offences are first or second generation immigrants.
Immigration doesn't work at all where there is no integration.
If you let people come, live in their own communities, send their kids to their own schools to go in to arranged marriages... There is nothing multi about that culture.
We have exactly no home-grown terrorism.

As for the rally, I haven't really weighed in because everyone involved seems like a dick bag...
But.. As far as trolling and provoking, let's not forget the rally was an anti-abortion rally, hence the reason a catholic school sent it's students.
Most of the other groups there that weren't in-line with this narrative were there to counter protest and generally be asses.

I hate the whole Pro-life vs Pro-Choice debate, it's so disingenuous to suggest that both groups are "Pro", rather than "Anti"

Jan 23, 2019 23:34:33 GMT iNCY said:

As for the rally, I haven't really weighed in because everyone involved seems like a dick bag...
But.. As far as trolling and provoking, let's not forget the rally was an anti-abortion rally, hence the reason a catholic school sent it's students.
Most of the other groups there that weren't in-line with this narrative were there to counter protest and generally be asses.

I hate the whole Pro-life vs Pro-Choice debate, it's so disingenuous to suggest that both groups are "Pro", rather than "Anti"

Do you think it's appropriate for the kids to be there? Do teenage boys deserve/need the right to have a vocal, visible voice on the matter - let alone one that is sponsored/supported by their school?

Jan 23, 2019 23:46:10 GMT @admin said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:34:33 GMT iNCY said:

As for the rally, I haven't really weighed in because everyone involved seems like a dick bag...
But.. As far as trolling and provoking, let's not forget the rally was an anti-abortion rally, hence the reason a catholic school sent it's students.
Most of the other groups there that weren't in-line with this narrative were there to counter protest and generally be asses.

I hate the whole Pro-life vs Pro-Choice debate, it's so disingenuous to suggest that both groups are "Pro", rather than "Anti"

Do you think it's appropriate for the kids to be there? Do teenage boys deserve/need the right to have a vocal, visible voice on the matter - let alone one that is sponsored/supported by their school?

I 100% think children should pay no part in protests, I have absolute conviction on this point.
I would also ban university students.
You're Australian HR you have probably seen Q&A on the ABC? I get nauseated by all the opinions of the idealist panelists and audience on Q&A telling us what we should and shouldn't do with no plan to pay for any of it and most of them contributing nothing themselves.

Unless you're contributing to society and paying taxes, your voice doesn't matter.


You either die young, or live long enough to because conservative  :verysad:

Jan 23, 2019 23:56:06 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:46:10 GMT @admin said:

Do you think it's appropriate for the kids to be there? Do teenage boys deserve/need the right to have a vocal, visible voice on the matter - let alone one that is sponsored/supported by their school?

I 100% think children should pay no part in protests, I have absolute conviction on this point.
I would also ban university students.
You're Australian HR you have probably seen Q&A on the ABC? I get nauseated by all the opinions of the idealist panelists and audience on Q&A telling us what we should and shouldn't do with no plan to pay for any of it and most of them contributing nothing themselves.

Unless you're contributing to society and paying taxes, your voice doesn't matter.


You either die young, or live long enough to because conservative  :verysad:

Who are they putting on the panel that is not paying tax? Clive Palmer?

People are entitled to their opinions, my issue with this specific example is when we have some posters framing the school kids as innocent when their very presence at the protest/march was provocative, let alone the way they presented themselves - when lets face it, abortion really has fuck all to do with them. 

Jan 23, 2019 23:56:06 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:46:10 GMT @admin said:

Do you think it's appropriate for the kids to be there? Do teenage boys deserve/need the right to have a vocal, visible voice on the matter - let alone one that is sponsored/supported by their school?

I 100% think children should pay no part in protests, I have absolute conviction on this point.
I would also ban university students.
You're Australian HR you have probably seen Q&A on the ABC? I get nauseated by all the opinions of the idealist panelists and audience on Q&A telling us what we should and shouldn't do with no plan to pay for any of it and most of them contributing nothing themselves.

Unless you're contributing to society and paying taxes, your voice doesn't matter.


You either die young, or live long enough to because conservative  :verysad:

Had a theory about that last sentence once upon a time. Because society generally moves towards progressive social causes in the United States (and I presume similarly in most industrialized nations), is it that you become conservative or because the progressive issues of decades past are considerably less of an issue.

For instance, let’s say my driving force as a progressive in 2000 was for equal rights for gay people, with marriage at the peak of that. Maybe that’s my driving fight because politician with wedge issues riled me up or maybe I just believe in that solitary thing above all else. Now marriage equality exists in the US and liberal groups are pushing thirty-one gender identities and things like that that weren’t part of my core issue. Do I reevaluate now? Is progressivism a push in your youth to move in one direction and then a push later against the slippery slope? I don’t really know. I’m thirty-six and I’m not really satisfied with the world yet, wonder where we’ll be in 15 years.

Jan 23, 2019 21:21:45 GMT RT said:

I didn’t ignore any facts, I simply added more. If one video holds up then they all do. None of them have any context before or after the video because none of that can be proven.

And I’m not race baiting, I just can’t think of any other reason why the videos of the white kids are being ignored and the videos of the Native and black people are proof that they were wrong. I’m open to suggestions.

Because they are 30 sec and 8 sec clips with no broader context.  You know the kind of clips that caused the media to make asses of themselves in the first place.   


You simply cannot make assumptions on such little evidence.

Jan 23, 2019 23:46:10 GMT @admin said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:34:33 GMT iNCY said:

As for the rally, I haven't really weighed in because everyone involved seems like a dick bag...
But.. As far as trolling and provoking, let's not forget the rally was an anti-abortion rally, hence the reason a catholic school sent it's students.
Most of the other groups there that weren't in-line with this narrative were there to counter protest and generally be asses.

I hate the whole Pro-life vs Pro-Choice debate, it's so disingenuous to suggest that both groups are "Pro", rather than "Anti"

Do you think it's appropriate for the kids to be there? Do teenage boys deserve/need the right to have a vocal, visible voice on the matter - let alone one that is sponsored/supported by their school?

Honestly I agree with Incy that they shouldn't be there.

BUT...high school kids ARE allowed to march in Washington, protest, assemble, whatever you want to call it, for decades now.    You can't pick and choose which high school kids are allowed to assemble for which causes.   Either they all allowed to, or they are all not allowed to.          

clarify my comment that Baker quoted, I meant that I was not interested in the minutia of the interaction as it really makes no difference to the broader issue.

Broader issue of what exactly?

Jan 24, 2019 0:27:57 GMT @admin said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:56:06 GMT iNCY said:

Who are they putting on the panel that is not paying tax? Clive Palmer?

People are entitled to their opinions, my issue with this specific example is when we have some posters framing the school kids as innocent when their very presence at the protest/march was provocative, let alone the way they presented themselves - when lets face it, abortion really has fuck all to do with them. 

They tend to pander to full time academics, politicians and the audience is packed full of welfare recipients and University students

Jan 24, 2019 1:04:30 GMT mikec said:

Jan 23, 2019 23:56:06 GMT iNCY said:

I 100% think children should pay no part in protests, I have absolute conviction on this point.
I would also ban university students.
You're Australian HR you have probably seen Q&A on the ABC? I get nauseated by all the opinions of the idealist panelists and audience on Q&A telling us what we should and shouldn't do with no plan to pay for any of it and most of them contributing nothing themselves.

Unless you're contributing to society and paying taxes, your voice doesn't matter.


You either die young, or live long enough to because conservative 

Had a theory about that last sentence once upon a time. Because society generally moves towards progressive social causes in the United States (and I presume similarly in most industrialized nations), is it that you become conservative or because the progressive issues of decades past are considerably less of an issue.

For instance, let’s say my driving force as a progressive in 2000 was for equal rights for gay people, with marriage at the peak of that. Maybe that’s my driving fight because politician with wedge issues riled me up or maybe I just believe in that solitary thing above all else. Now marriage equality exists in the US and liberal groups are pushing thirty-one gender identities and things like that that weren’t part of my core issue. Do I reevaluate now? Is progressivism a push in your youth to move in one direction and then a push later against the slippery slope? I don’t really know. I’m thirty-six and I’m not really satisfied with the world yet, wonder where we’ll be in 15 years.

This is pretty much my issue.
Once upon a time the left was concerned with the rights of the worker and fighting injustice.
Women can vote, workers have rights and the battle is pretty much over.
As a result the left is manufacturing outrage and the right is manufacturing over-reaction.

Gay marriage wasn't a real rights issue, gay people had rights enshrined under the law...
As a result, the effort that went into the debate took the discussion away from really important issues for the past 2 years.
We all agree that protectionism is not the answer to a global economy, but what is the answer to ensuring a good quality of life for workers in an economy with no traditional manufacturing.
How do we have renewable energy when it costs more and nobody wants to pay?

These issues get traction because they are easier to talk about than the real issues...
Trans rights?? Come on! Transgender people represent 0.6% of the population. 
What about the issues that affect all of us?

Jan 24, 2019 1:40:59 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 23, 2019 21:21:45 GMT RT said:

I didn’t ignore any facts, I simply added more. If one video holds up then they all do. None of them have any context before or after the video because none of that can be proven.

And I’m not race baiting, I just can’t think of any other reason why the videos of the white kids are being ignored and the videos of the Native and black people are proof that they were wrong. I’m open to suggestions.

Because they are 30 sec and 8 sec clips with no broader context.  You know the kind of clips that caused the media to make asses of themselves in the first place.   


You simply cannot make assumptions on such little evidence.

This guy.

This guy right here.

Jan 24, 2019 4:44:44 GMT RT said:

Jan 24, 2019 1:40:59 GMT thereallt said:

Because they are 30 sec and 8 sec clips with no broader context.  You know the kind of clips that caused the media to make asses of themselves in the first place.   


You simply cannot make assumptions on such little evidence.

This guy.

This guy right here.

Lets see, a 30 and 8 sec clips vs an an entire 36 minute clip that showed the ENTIRE incident and all actors involved.

If your POV had any credibility the media would not be retracting their stories and preparing to settle lawsuits.

Anyone want to tell me how the kids involved here were wrong and should have stayed home.

www.zinnedproject.org/materials/childrens-march

Perfectly sums up exactly why I think people still attacking the Covington students is absolutely ridiculous.

Wow just wow.





Seriously fuck this dude in the ass. He should be ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS. For all the damn lies he told, from his so called service in Vietnam, his service in the military in general and telling bald face lies in every interview he did about this whole incident. NO ONE is making death threats against him, or trying to dox his address. His reputation isn't the one that got smeared on national TV.


I sincerely hope he's named as the first defendant in any coming lawsuit.

Jan 24, 2019 13:58:27 GMT theend said:

Anyone want to tell me how the kids involved here were wrong and should have stayed home.

www.zinnedproject.org/materials/childrens-march

I think there's a pretty big difference between black children protesting against segregation and teenage boys trying to tell women what they are allowed to do with their bodies.

Jan 24, 2019 22:26:09 GMT @admin said:

Jan 24, 2019 13:58:27 GMT theend said:

Anyone want to tell me how the kids involved here were wrong and should have stayed home.

www.zinnedproject.org/materials/childrens-march

I think there's a pretty big difference between black children protesting against segregation and teenage boys trying to tell women what they are allowed to do with their bodies.

Not according to the first amendment.   

Jan 24, 2019 22:32:27 GMT thereallt said:

Jan 24, 2019 22:26:09 GMT @admin said:

I think there's a pretty big difference between black children protesting against segregation and teenage boys trying to tell women what they are allowed to do with their bodies.

Not according to the first amendment.   

Fair enough, but my opinion comes from as someone unconcerned with the constitution. People protesting about something that basically has fuck all to do with them comes across provocatively and unnecessary. 

Again, this is a grown-ass man feuding with a child. Even if he was remotely right, he's still a grown-ass man feuding with a child.

I'm going to wade in here. 1. The kids have every right to wear their attire whether or not I like the person that attire is attached to. 2. When I was a kid, we went to Washington D.C. for our senior trip approximately 7 months after 9/11. There were NO marches or anything that we were invited to or allowed to congregate or visit outside of our agenda. We were told clearly that if we screwed up, we would face suspension up to and/or including expulsion. We went nowhere without teachers chaperoning us. 2. I ain't watching all of the videos. 3. Smirking at anyone with a MAGA hat on isn't a good idea. Much less some dude who could pass for a body double in a biopic about Geronimo. However I remember being a shit when I was his age so he gets a pass from me on that. 4. Wishing death or violence upon any student is wrong and inappropriate. 5. Nobody got hurt at the end of the day. No reports of violence.