Mar 18, 2018 15:47:39 GMT mikec said:

Mar 17, 2018 21:28:00 GMT thereallt said:

The Eagles have just won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles and teams still don't get it.

Having  an ace QB means shit if the rest of your franchise is a dumpster fire. Better to have somewhat of a solid roster your QB can work with

Best way to have that is the draft. First contract QBs are cheap enough to pile talent around. The Eagles roster won’t hold once Wentz gets his money either.

I don't disagree, but 3 2nd round picks just to move up in the draft?   That is a bit much.   You better be drafting the next John Elway for that price.   

Oh for sure it’s a bad price to pay for moving up three spots.. Low price if you get a good, contract controlled qb for several years, but when you’re the third team drafting a QB your chances of getting the good one are slimmer.

If the Jets are sold on Allen or Mayfield I don’t blame them though, because getting there early beats a team like the Bills who could pay more to get to that spot.

Mar 18, 2018 19:19:28 GMT mikec said:

but when you’re the third team drafting a QB your chances of getting the good one are slimmer.         

No one seems to completely agree about who is really the best quarterback in this class so I think it's a good time to take this chance.

People always overestimate the value of draft picks. Here are some Jets recent second round selections: Christian Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Jace Amaro, Geno Smith, Stephen Hill - I think they'll cope without a couple more. 

Mar 18, 2018 22:41:29 GMT @admin said:

Mar 18, 2018 19:19:28 GMT mikec said:

but when you’re the third team drafting a QB your chances of getting the good one are slimmer.         

No one seems to completely agree about who is really the best quarterback in this class so I think it's a good time to take this chance.

People always overestimate the value of draft picks. Here are some Jets recent second round selections: Christian Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Jace Amaro, Geno Smith, Stephen Hill - I think they'll cope without a couple more. 

Yeah I was going with your argument in the bottom at first, but seems like the smartest draft theory people think taking as many chances in the draft as possible in good spots.

So in my mind this is a move that you make only if you are really comfortable with you think the third best QB is. But if you like the third best QB in the draft, then I’d go for it because I’d rather have a young middling guy than Kirk Cousins at a ridiculous number.

Mar 18, 2018 22:41:29 GMT @admin said:

Mar 18, 2018 19:19:28 GMT mikec said:

but when you’re the third team drafting a QB your chances of getting the good one are slimmer.         

No one seems to completely agree about who is really the best quarterback in this class so I think it's a good time to take this chance.

People always overestimate the value of draft picks. Here are some Jets recent second round selections: Christian Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Jace Amaro, Geno Smith, Stephen Hill - I think they'll cope without a couple more. 

Mike Nugent and Vlad Ducasse can be added too. 2nd round has not been kind, however I don't like using draft trends to justify the waste of 2nd round picks. For example one of our starting safeties, Marcus Maye came out of Round 2 last draft....and we had a 10+ year starter in David Harris come out of round 2. 

If a team knows how to draft and knows what they are doing, 2nd round picks are money. Derek Carr, Leveon Bell, Lesean McCoy are some of the premiere talents to come out of round 2 and that took me just 5 seconds to think off the top of what has come out of round 2. Heck we can trade those picks and acquire more talent in other rounds.

The problem is when you have Mike Tannebaum, Terry Bradway and John Idzik as some of your GMs, those 2nd round picks are a damn waste and this is why we are in the spot we are in now by being devoid of talent by miss after miss after miss with those picks. Quality franchises hit with those picks, we do not. Saints this past draft drafted stud after stud after stud, why can't the Jets? 

Just because a team doesn't know how the hell to draft doesn't mean they should just cherry wrap those picks and not be willing to draft in that round. 

I was being slightly facetious - obviously it's possible to get a good player in the second round - but I think you should always be aggressive to get a franchise quarterback. The trade is consistent value with what other teams have paid to move up similar positions in the draft in the past so they haven't paid over the odds from that perspective.

I think it's also important to note that the Bills were highly likely to be sniffing around trying to move up to #3 as well. The Jets definitely wouldn't have wanted to be in a position where a division rival made a play to come from below them and take a potential stud as we head towards the post-Brady era.

Mar 18, 2018 16:33:39 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Mar 17, 2018 15:03:12 GMT Blindy said:

This is why you tank for games. Beating the Chiefs, Jaguars and Bills meant absolute zero and if anything allowed the Broncos and Texans and Colts to be ahead of us when it matters most. I hate tanking as much as the next  guy but there's zero reason to win 5 games instead of 3 and it kills you in the end. 

I just can't understand this mentality bro. Winning is everything, losing is death. In the competitive world of the NFL once you accept losing into your heart it becomes a part of the fabric of your soul forever(or for a very long period of time). I believe there are certain teams through NFL history that just became associated with losing, just their uniforms and their helmets(80's/early 90's Bucs, post Super Bowl XX Patriots, today's Cleveland Brownsetc), to the point when opponents seen them on their schedule they were just licking their chops and it was a heavily mental thing going into those games where the outcome was already decided before they even stepped onto the field. There's also the fact that players don't want to play for teams that are synonymous with losing and it all just becomes a culture over time. 

A team should fight to win every game no matter what so they can hold their heads up with some sort of pride, win or lose, knowing that they fought it out with honor. The idea of losing on purpose for the draft really just blows my mind. They should just get better at drafting, so many of the all time greats were taken outside of those top 5 picks(JJ Watt, Troy Polamalu), late round guys(Tom Brady), even undrafted guys(Arian Foster). And then there was all those top 5 draft picks that turned out to be nothing, too many to list here. Play to win the game and then just let the chips fall where they may, learn how to evaluate talent. 

The Texans had a few seasons where they could have tanked it. That 7-9 season in 2004 comes to mind, team was still really young and could not land any of the big name free agents at the time, they NEEDED a high draft pick and winning some of those games that year did them no favors. Had they lost on purpose to get a top 5 pick they wouldn't have gotten much though, Pac Man Jones? Alex Smith? Ronnie Brown? Braylon Edwards? I don't know man, I wouldn't trade some of those wins for any of those guys, they had some wins and some moments that year that I'll never forget. Then again in the 2008 season where the hurricane fucked up NRG Stadium and they started 0-4, could have tanked that year but Kubiak pulled them boys together to win 8 of their last 12 to finish 8-8, didn't even get close to making the playoffs but still there were a few wins there in that stretch that mean a whole lot more than any of those guys in the top 10 of the 2009 NFL draft ever would have. 

They did tank the 2005 season. I almost destroyed a TV watching one of those last games against the Colts, fuck a draft I wanted them to beat that team and they clearly lost it on purpose. Yeah they got Mario Williams, one of the all time best Texans for sure, but at what price? Their performances on primetime that year were so bad they didn't get another primetime game for a few years, didn't get on national televised primetime until 7 years later, the team had that losers aura they had to work against for years after that 2005 tanked season. 

The jets were pegged as the favorites to land the top pick but did not despite having the most inferior talent in the league. Heck they had the most cap room to spend for a reason, they shed veteran after veteran the prior offseason. How they mustered 5 wins is beyond me, including downing playoff teams in the Chiefs, Jaguars and Bills and by all accounts should have taken down the Falcons, and at least gone to OT with the Patriots. I don't know how this team hung in so many contests with such inferior talent, it is mindboggling. But that is an irrelevant factor because you either win or lose, what media exposure will these guys get from this? Jets deserve 0 primetime games this year outside of the must have TNF game as they haven't earned it. Todd Bowles lacks "it" as far as a winning head coach with his ultra conservativeness and inability to gameplan after the 1st half so this is going to be a wasted year since he and maybe even our GM will be gone after this year. The only good thing is seeing the continued development of guys like Leo Williams, Jamal Adams, Robby Anderson(If he isn't getting his dumbass arrested or soon to be suspended...), Quincy Enunwa, Marcus Maye and maybe even our 3rd overall pick. That's why I watched the games last year all the way and that is why I will watch them this year. 

The Rams transformed their team with a good coaching hire and being able to mold their top pick Goff to be a franchise signal caller. Cam Newton was able to take the Panthers to the top and even get them to a super bowl appearance. I was rooting for the Jets to lose down the stretch after they overperformed and got 5 wins too early including losing to the Pats in Foxboro and I DETEST New England but that game meant absolutely nothing. The jets haven't picked 1st overall since Keyshawn Johnson.....Keyshawn Johnson. I was SEVEN YEARS OLD. SEVEN! This team goes out of it's own way to win games for no reason and to shoot themselves in the foot. You can't tell me dropping 1 or 2 of those games would have saved draft picks for this team, this is evident by this draft trade. 

Players come to teams for money, money dwarfs loyalty at the end of the day. It isn't the green of the jersey they play for here in New York, it's the money. I doubt Trumaine Johnson, Avery Williamson, Spencer Long, and Isiah Crowell are here because they want to be Jets. 

Mar 18, 2018 23:32:30 GMT @admin said:

I was being slightly facetious - obviously it's possible to get a good player in the second round - but I think you should always be aggressive to get a franchise quarterback. The trade is consistent value with what other teams have paid to move up similar positions in the draft in the past so they haven't paid over the odds from that perspective.

I think it's also important to note that the Bills were highly likely to be sniffing around trying to move up to #3 as well. The Jets definitely wouldn't have wanted to be in a position where a division rival made a play to come from below them and take a potential stud as we head towards the post-Brady era.

Jets got desperate and while I think the draft value chart is overstated by the media as an unofficial draft value measure, they gave up an additional pick or at the very least could have gave a 3rd round pick instead of one of the 2nd round picks and would have been much closer to even value. They did this trade for the exact reason you mentioned HR, to avoid Buffalo, Arizona and Miami of being tempted to go to the 3rd overall pick. However, this just means Dave Gettleman and the Maras will be tempted to trade down to spite the crosstown rivals all in the while of getting some huge draft pick surplus back in return. 

Much like when the Jets got the 2nd rated QB in the 09 draft class, Mark Sanchez(Who this team failed but he didn't do himself any favors as to why he didn't become a franchise QB) while Matt Stafford is still killing it in Detroit, Buffalo and or Cleveland are going to get 1st dibs on QBs and the Jets have to hope the 2nd or 3rd top QB is still worth it. Hopefully this is a 2004 draft class with Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger all most likely hall of famers. 

They gave up a very similar package of picks that the Redskins gave up to move to get RG3 in 2012.

I don't see the Giants moving down unless they are offered a truly ridiculous haul. They are not a team with a great deal of glaring holes that necessitates the stockpiling of picks - and are a organisation that knows as well as anyone the value of getting a franchise QB when you get the chance. People (might have even been you Blindy?) used to argue that they gave up too much to trade for Eli but who gives a fuck about Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding now?

The happiest team about this must be the Browns, because they look set to get their QB choice plus Saquon now. 

The Jets didn't give up their 1st round pick next year which is the lone saving grace of this trade as that would have been disastrous.

I am surprised the Giants don't take Barkley because if not, who is their starting RB? Darkwa is still a FA so that means Paul Perkins again after he was hurt and didn't grab the bull by the horns? Barkley would transform that team offensively though Rosen would be a good QB to be behind Eli Manning.

I think the Bills will swoon the Giants or Browns for one of those picks, especially with Elway tempted to get a QB ready for Case Keenum's 2 years with Denver.

Now that the FA dominoes have fallen I thought I'd do a quick first round mock for fun. Happy to elaborate on reasoning if anyone's interested...

1. Browns - Sam Darnold QB USC
2. Giants - Josh Rosen QB UCLA
3. Jets - Baker Mayfield QB Oklahoma
4. Browns - Saquon Barkley RB Penn State
5. Broncos - Josh Allen QB Wyoming
6. Colts - Minkah Fitzpatrick DB Alabama
7. Bucs - Bradley Chubb DE NC State
8. Bears - Quentin Nelson OG Notre Dame
9. 49ers - Tremaine Edmunds LB Virginia Tech
10. Raiders - Roquan Smith LB Georgia
11. Dolphins - Vita Vea DT Washington
12. Bills - Lamar Jackson QB Louisville
13. Redskins - Denzel Ward CB Ohio State
14. Packers - Derwin James DB Florida State
15. Cardinals - Mike McGlinchey OT Notre Dame
16. Ravens - Marcus Davenport DE UTSA
17. Chargers - Leighton Vander Esch LB Boise State
18. Seahawks - Josh Jackson CB Iowa
19. Cowboys - Calvin Ridley WR Alabama
20. Lions - James Daniels C Iowa
21. Bengals - Will Hernandez OG UTEP
22. Bills - Connor Williams OT Texas
23. Rams - Kolton Miller OT UCLA
24. Panthers - Sam Hubbard DE Ohio State
25. Titans - Harold Landry EDGE Boston College
26. Falcons - Da'ron Payne DT Alabama
27. Saints - Dallas Goedert TE SDSU
28. Steelers - Justin Reid DB Stanford
29. Jaguars - Cortland Sutton WR SMU
30. Vikings - Isaiah Wynn OG Georgia
31. Patriots - Lorenzo Carter EDGE Georgia
32. Eagles - Mike Gesicki TE Penn State

I'd rather have Davenport , we need a blue chip pass rushers and it sucks this draft is short on them. I could definitely see them going James though , rumors are abound that we're interested in him and even possibly looking to trade up. Just seems kind of silly and I like what we have at the safety position already. I want Josh Jones to get his shot there.

I know you listen to Move the Stick @admit , I thought DJ's take on the Giants was interesting. I hated Bucky's thought's (per usual) about building around Eli to make him happy. That's such a stooge take. I think the Giants might go quarterback , be interested if they go upside in Allen or go with Rosen.

Also Gesicki to Philly wouldn't be fair , that kid is going to be a beast. Send him to Jacksonville.

Jackson had a workout in Houston today.

Never has a more pointless meeting taken place. A first round draft pick meeting with a team that doesn't pick until round 3 and has the best second-year quarterback.

Strange one.

Mar 22, 2018 13:55:02 GMT UT said:

I know you listen to Move the Stick @admit , I thought DJ's take on the Giants was interesting. I hated Bucky's thought's (per usual) about building around Eli to make him happy. That's such a stooge take. I think the Giants might go quarterback , be interested if they go upside in Allen or go with Rosen. 

I am very convinced that if they stay at #2 they are picking a quarterback. I have had the same vibe from Gettleman the whole way through that he has just been trying to smoke screen by talking about Saquon, etc.

Although I don't see it happening because of the signing of Omameh - I don't necessarily hate the idea of drafting Nelson, if a team like the Bills were to sell the farm to get ahead of the Jets. With the JPP trade indicating that they are probably going to a 3-4 front under Bettcher, I don't see Chubb being an realistic option if they were to move back.

Mar 22, 2018 20:48:46 GMT Todd said:

Jackson had a workout in Houston today.

Never has a more pointless meeting taken place. A first round draft pick meeting with a team that doesn't pick until round 3 and has the best second-year quarterback.

Strange one.

Jacksonville is a strong possible landing spot for Lamar so they may just be doing their due diligence and getting a look at a guy they could end up playing twice a season.

I've read a few mock drafts and two of the ones I read had Buffalo trading to the 12th spot and getting Baker Mayfield there. Would he really drop that far? I don't know anything about the guy or any college football players for that matter. I don't follow it and never pay attention to drafts. I only care once the players have been in the NFL for a year or two, which hasn't worked out for Buffalo in like 20 years.

Lots of chat online about them trading all the way up to #2 to nab Rosen ahead of everyone. What do you guys think is the better move? Are either of those moves good? Has Buffalo fucked themselves over at yet another draft?

Mar 23, 2018 1:13:19 GMT RT said:

I've read a few mock drafts and two of the ones I read had Buffalo trading to the 12th spot and getting Baker Mayfield there. Would he really drop that far? I don't know anything about the guy or any college football players for that matter. I don't follow it and never pay attention to drafts. I only care once the players have been in the NFL for a year or two, which hasn't worked out for Buffalo in like 20 years.

Lots of chat online about them trading all the way up to #2 to nab Rosen ahead of everyone. What do you guys think is the better move? Are either of those moves good? Has Buffalo fucked themselves over at yet another draft?

It really depends on the how the QB needy teams have their rankings. Personally I think there is 5 (possibly 6) quarterbacks that could be taken in the first round. As it stands there are 5 teams sitting above Buffalo that would be legitimately interested in taking a quarterback. I didn't mock a QB to the Dolphins but I think they are a problem for the Bills as we know they love Mayfield and will likely take him if he's still available at 11. 

The Jets boxed the Bills out cleverly. I think Buffalo showed their hand of desiring a quarterback by trading Tyrod away early on, and then making the trade to 12. It seems fairly apparent they were hoping to use the initial trade with the Bengals as a springboard to get even higher, and the Jets weren't prepared to see their division rivals jump ahead of them. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a draft day trade depending on who comes off the board in the first couple of picks - you have the Dolphins, Bills, Cards, and Ravens all sitting between 11 and 16 who I can see jumping up to get the passer they want.

Really really wanted Hurns but I like Terrelle Pryor, he kicked ass with McCown back in 2016 so the chemistry is there. He was dinged up last season and admittedly half assed it in DC so hoping for a revival with the Jets. 1 year 6 million sounds good with me, though he plays quite a bit like Enunwa.

With Robbie Anderson most likely being suspended, a Kearse/Pryor/Enunwa/Hansen/A. Stewart five some works until Anderson returns. Devin Smith has been hurt too much to be relied upon and I think this is his last training camp to show his worth. Jets would be foolish to cut Kearse in order to save 5 million.

Given the Jets lack a TE since they didn't resign ASJ for whatever reason, Enunwa will be a pseudo TE and they can run 3 WR packages with Kearse, Pryor and Enunwa with the latter being 2 huge red zone targets.

Would be amazing if they can sign Gaines and cut Skrine.....Mo Claiborne as a 3rd CB? Are you kidding me? So good.

Mar 23, 2018 1:13:19 GMT RT said:

I've read a few mock drafts and two of the ones I read had Buffalo trading to the 12th spot and getting Baker Mayfield there. Would he really drop that far? I don't know anything about the guy or any college football players for that matter. I don't follow it and never pay attention to drafts. I only care once the players have been in the NFL for a year or two, which hasn't worked out for Buffalo in like 20 years.

Lots of chat online about them trading all the way up to #2 to nab Rosen ahead of everyone. What do you guys think is the better move? Are either of those moves good? Has Buffalo fucked themselves over at yet another draft?

Buffalo already traded up to the 12th pick in the Glenn deal , so they no doubt are in the mode to get a quarterback. I think their trade is what essentially pushed the Jet's hand trying to get into the top three because it became even less likely one of their favorite quarterbacks would drop to them. 

I prefer Mayfield , but I think that would require a trade with Cleveland at #4 and would probably still cost Buffalo their other first round pick. It all depends on who works out though - I think Mayfield would be a good fit with the coaching staff their though. 

Mar 22, 2018 22:48:31 GMT @admin said:

Mar 22, 2018 13:55:02 GMT UT said:

I know you listen to Move the Stick @admit , I thought DJ's take on the Giants was interesting. I hated Bucky's thought's (per usual) about building around Eli to make him happy. That's such a stooge take. I think the Giants might go quarterback , be interested if they go upside in Allen or go with Rosen. 

I am very convinced that if they stay at #2 they are picking a quarterback. I have had the same vibe from Gettleman the whole way through that he has just been trying to smoke screen by talking about Saquon, etc.

Although I don't see it happening because of the signing of Omameh - I don't necessarily hate the idea of drafting Nelson, if a team like the Bills were to sell the farm to get ahead of the Jets. With the JPP trade indicating that they are probably going to a 3-4 front under Bettcher, I don't see Chubb being an realistic option if they were to move back.

Mar 22, 2018 20:48:46 GMT Todd said:

Jackson had a workout in Houston today.

Never has a more pointless meeting taken place. A first round draft pick meeting with a team that doesn't pick until round 3 and has the best second-year quarterback.

Strange one.

Jacksonville is a strong possible landing spot for Lamar so they may just be doing their due diligence and getting a look at a guy they could end up playing twice a season.

Yeah it makes sense , if they didn't want a quarterback there's no way they wouldn't have taken a deal like that from the Jets - whom I sure went calling. They could have gotten to #6 and still gotten Chubb , Barkley or Nelson - all of whom would be play in them at #2 sans QB. 

I think Broncos and GMen swing a deal so Denver can get ahead of Jets to get Rosen and Giants get ahead of Indy for Chubb. Scratch my back, I scratch yours. Denver can give up the ammo to move up 3 spots I think if Elway feels a franchise QB is there to be had.

I'd hate to see that happen but still.

Suh's signed with the Rams to play alongside Aaron Donald. Poor Sam Bradford and Russell Wilson. :lol:

Meanwhile the Odell Beckham trade rumours have really started to heat up. To be honest as electrifying and exciting a player as he obviously is, I wouldn't be especially opposed to it. He's asking for QB money and good teams don't overpay wide receivers. The major obstacle seems to be finding someone that would be willing to give up high draft picks plus having enough cap space to be able to sign him to an extension.

The Rams just signed Ndamukong Suh for 1 year 14 million. Good luck trying to run up the gut against the Rams this season with both Suh and Donald in there.

Mar 26, 2018 23:39:59 GMT @admin said:

Suh's signed with the Rams to play alongside Aaron Donald. Poor Sam Bradford and Russell Wilson. :lol:

Meanwhile the Odell Beckham trade rumours have really started to heat up. To be honest as electrifying and exciting a player as he obviously is, I wouldn't be especially opposed to it. He's asking for QB money and good teams don't overpay wide receivers. The major obstacle seems to be finding someone that would be willing to give up high draft picks plus having enough cap space to be able to sign him to an extension.

Trading ODB makes sense if you're trying to rebuild like the Giants are. You can't put all your eggs in the ODB "I'm probably going to get fined/suspended/injured at some point this year" basket.

If the Giants were smart they'd trade him to a contender for as many picks and prospects as they could get.

Yeah I don't see how any team without a TON of cap space could trade for Beckham , for a millisecond I thought it'd be cool to rent him for a year as a Packer but that's impossible if he isn't playing this year without a deal and we can't pay him long term. The Browns make the most sense given their draft capital and cap space but I don't think it'd be the best move for them in terms of building a winner either.

And even though I don't think he should get the money he seeks , I can't blame him for trying either. He could of lost a lot of money last season if either of his injuries were any worse. Get what you can , while you can and his star can't really get much brighter.

The Browns do look interesting, on top of the fact they have the picks and cap space there is the Landry and Adam Henry connection. I think the #4 pick is probably too valuable to give away though which makes doing the deal a little bit difficult.

Apparently the Rams are interested, but they would need to stump up more than their #23 pick.

I'm leaning towards Beckham remaining a Giant for the foreseeable future, because there's too many obstacles in the way of a trade.

I saw someone on twitter suggesting 4 and 33 for him which I mostly laughed at. I like him, but not that much.

23 and something lower actually sounds about right to me, but the Rams are running awfully low on draft capital I would assume. If he weren’t on the cusp of demanding a big overpay he’d be more valuable.

The Patriots do it again.

The New England Patriots have traded Brandin Cooks to the Rams for a 1st round pick.

The Rams/Eagles is looking inevitable for the NFC Championship game. The Patriots are going to test their genius again.

As a Cooks owner for fantasy, I like it. Goff had a darn good year last year and Watkins was his go to guy and Cooks is miles better and is a better route runner. Pats got 1 year out of Cooks and moved up in couple of spots essentially given they gave the last pick to the Saints in the previous draft.

Pats look a bit thin at receiver now.

Rams are really going all in. Makes sense though to try and take advantage before they have to pay Goff and Gurley.

Talking heads are saying that maybe the Patriots are going after OBJ?

I doubt it. I don’t think he fits the Patriots Way. I’ve been saying OBJ needs to be traded before it was cool to say it. That dude is a diva and superstar divas don’t win Super Bowls.